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MessagePosté: 14 Fév 2007, 14:53 
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Qui-Gon Jinn a écrit:
Ah tu l'as lu ? Moi j'hésite...


Oui je m'ennuyais. Les scènes décrites dans l'article sont dans le scénario, avec les trucs pourris que j'avais espéré qu'ils coupent (la scène dans le jardin c'est non).

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Tu l'as pas gardé, d'ailleurs ? J'ai du mal à le choper là...

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A la Michael France/Mark Frost même.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon !

Déchire ses habits et saute par la fenêtre.


Version intégrale de la blague :
"When Sam's Chihuahua pees on the foot of one of the robots, it sees the terrified creature as an attack and aims his guns at him, so Sam has to convince him to back off."

J'aime bien le coup du flingue, ça me rappelle Schwarzie qui soulève le gosse mexicain dans T2 ou qui regarde mal John après que ce dernier l'ait feinté au "tope-là".

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Un autre compte-rendu plus détaillé:

When asked why they went with Bay to direct the film, the director joked that he was the only one available, but really, Spielberg and Goodman had been impressed with what Bay had done in his previous movies and felt that if there was anyone who could do a 90 MPH car chase with those cars transforming into giant robots, it was Bay. Bay was tentative at first about making a "stupid, silly toy movie" and remembered how when he was 15, he told his friends that Raiders of the Lost Ark was going to suck because Steven Spielberg was doing it (a statement he retracted after seeing it for the first time). Bay was then put through Transformers School to learn more about them, which finally convinced him to do the movie.

Goodman told the audience, which probably included a few Hasbro and DreamWorks shareholders, that the movie was going to have the company's single biggest initiative with promotional partners they couldn't yet mention, but suggested that it would be getting an even bigger push than Spielberg's War of the Worlds did two years ago.

Then it was time for what everyone had come to Lincoln Center to see, footage from the movie! Bay gave the caveat that many of the scenes being shown weren't the biggest ones in the movie, but that they were the ones that were the closest to being completed.

The first clip looks like it was from the opening of the film, showing a helicarrier flying over the deserts of Qatar. Inside, we see Josh Duhamel and the men of his unit shooting the sh*t, something about eating gator and a couple laughs from the men's banter. They land at their base and shortly after, an unknown helicopter approaches the base causing all sorts of consternation. (Some of this scene is in the trailer.) The helicopter bears the symbols USAF 4500X, which happens to be those of a copter that was recently shot down, putting the base on high alert. Sure enough, no sooner has the chopper landed that it begins to transform into the robot form of Blackout, which starts attacking everything that moves with huge EMP-like ripples that do huge amounts of damage. A hand rips the computer out of the control center and starts absorbing the military data as they throw everything they can at the deadly creature. At one point, something is jettisoned from Blackout's body (which we'll learn more about during a later scene.) This opening scene was classic Bay with lots of explosions, tanks and helicopters being thrown, and huge amounts of destruction, a bit like being back in Armageddon mode, though some of the early shots seemed to be homages to Apocalypse Now or Top Gun.

As the fighting intensifies, the preview cut to a tranquil outdoor scene with the introduction of Shia LaBeouf's character Sam, hanging with his dorky friend at some sort of lakeside high school gathering and gushing over the fact that "Mikaela" is there. (Amusing aside: I'm not sure, but I think the temp music was the theme from "Six Feet Under.") The two dorks are confronted by a jock who wants to know what they're doing there, and we meet the aforementioned Mikaela, played by the super-hot Megan Fox. (Boy, Shia is one lucky guy to have movies that have him appearing opposite Fox and the equally attractive Sarah Roemer in the thriller Disturbia, which comes out in April.)

When Mikaela gets into a tiff with the jock she's with--he won't let her drive and calls her his "little bunny" suggesting she "hop in the back" (and they say chivalry is dead)--she decides to walk home, and Sam sees an opportunity to give her a ride, prompted by his car radio suddenly playing The Cars' "Drive." He tells his buddy to get out and he tries to be cool as he offers to "ride her home." They drive along and he tries to make small talk with her, but then his car conveniently breaks down at a romantic overlook of the city and he blusters his way through convincing her that he didn't do it on purpose. Apparently, she has some mechanical skills and she has him pop the hood so she could look at the engine, while Sam and we get a good look at Fox's hot bod. (I better be careful what I say because she's probably underage and I probably have furniture older than her.) Sam's pretty shocked that she knows the inside of cars better than him, and she walks off insulted, at which point, the car magically starts back up with "Baby Come Back" playing on its radio, so Sam jumps in and drives after her. If it wasn't obvious by now, it's pretty clear at this point that Sam's rusty, banged-up yellow '70s Camaro is actually Autobot Bumblebee, and though we didn't get to see the transformation, a few telling signs are the black stripped-paint stripes and a bee air freshener with the word "Bee-otch" on it. (That got a couple chuckles.)

The third scene seems to be shortly after this, opening with a middle-aged couple, who we quickly learn are Sam's parents, as they're watching the non-stop news about UFO's and strange occurrences. We cut to Optimus Prime in his truck form (met with great applause), driving down the suburban street followed by Bumblebee in Camaro form and another Autobot, which was probably Ironhide (sorry, I know my cars about as well as I know my Transformers). Sam and Mikaela get out of the Camaro and Sam runs to his house to retrieve something, but his father won't let him in. Sam's obviously freaked out, but even moreso when Bumblebee in robot form peers from around the corner of the house and tries to warn Sam not to let his father see them. We then get our first glimpse of Optimus Prime in his full robot form, but when Sam's Chihuahua pees on the foot of one of the robots, it sees the terrified creature as an attack and aims his guns at him, so Sam has to convince him to back off. Sam gets into the house and begins looking for his "glasses" because that's what the Autobots are seeking. He's soon joined by Mikaela, as she's picked up and placed gently in his room through the window. As she helps him look, we get a humorous scene reminiscent of Shia's relationship with the girl next door in Disturbia, as the Autobots wait outside. During this entire sequence, we get many great close-ups of the Autobots' expressive faces and get to see the range of emotions they're able to express. (A few of the shots weren't quite done, the CG robots were replaced by 2-D animation inserts.)

Suddenly, a line of jeeps with flashing lights drive down the street to the house, and we're introduced to John Turturro's character, an abrasive G-Man who has his men inspect the house, pissing off Sam's mom as they start ripping out her plants. They seem to be looking for the residue of something that will let them know that the robots had been at the house, so Turturro's character takes out a meter that shows that Sam has contacted high doses of this radiation, and he announces that they will have to take Sam with them.

One thing we were able to get out of both these scenes (and this is true for Disturbia too) is that Shia LaBeouf is very funny and between his two upcoming movies, he's going to be winning over many new fans than some of his previous sidekick roles in I, Robot, Constantine and Charlie's Angels. Before the footage was shown, Bay compared his young star Shia LaBeouf to "a young Tom Hanks" and though he thought the young actor "was not that attractive (but don't tell him I said that), he has charm" which Bay thinks will help the movie appeal to women as well as guys.

That seemed to be it for the footage--and it was received with hearty applause--but really, they were just teasing everyone to beg Bay to show another clip, which was ready to go. The fourth clip took us back to Qatar where Josh Duhamel and the Special Ops team were running through the desert being chased by something, which turned out to be a giant mechanical scorpion, Scorponok from the Beast Wars era, which had been deployed by Blackout in the opening scene! It burrows through the desert sands, coming out to attack the soldiers with its deadly tail stinger, and the men run for cover in a nearby village as Scorponok continues to attack with its rockets. As the fight continues, a mysterious jet plane approaches the scene, as men in a war room watch the events unfold, one of them being Jon Voight's Keller, who seems like a government official of some kind. This jet may have been Starscream, though it starts shooting at Scorponok and doing a good deal of damage, as the robot burrows back into the ground, leaving a piece of its tail behind. (The coolest thing about this sequence though is seeing the jet shoot from its side, which is not very common.)

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J'aime bien le coup du flingue, ça me rappelle Schwarzie qui soulève le gosse mexicain dans T2 ou qui regarde mal John après que ce dernier l'ait feinté au "tope-là".


Clairement. Le regard "C'est pas drôle. Je vais te tuer."
En tout cas ça passe mieux sous cet angle.


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Bon, je fais quand même une petite review de ce que j'ai lu, scénario qui a supposé avoir changé mais tous les plans de la bande-annonce et les scènes montrées y sont à l'identique.
En l'état, le scénario est mauvais. Ca ressemble énormément à Terminator 2, dans l'intrigue, dans l'humour, dans certaines scènes qui sont quasiment copiées. Enormément de stéréotypes notamment sur la présentation des personnages qui est honteuse, un tas de scènes piquées ailleurs et très attendues, et il y a un truc qui va faire jaser ceux qui voient en Bay un impérialiste américain qui a une vue condescendante du monde si ca reste (c'est au début, le reste du scénario est plus soft là-dessus).

Le ton est celui d'un blockbuster d'été, avec beaucoup d'humour, de dialogues décalés au milieu des scènes d'action (l'appel téléphonique au milieu de l'attaque de Scorponok, j'avais espéré qu'il le coupe, c'est le genre de truc qui gâche une scène). Ca n'est pas le ton du trailer, c'est du pur popcorn, aucune tentative d'avoir un ton original ou un ton un peu profond. C'est rythmé et ca s'enchaine vite avec pas mal d'action, mais il n'y a aucun effort pour dépasser le truc le plus basique imaginable avec ce sujet. L'enjeu est réduit à rien et il y a des raccourcis énormes pour une intrigue aussi simpliste. On se tape des scènes de teen-movie, du sous christine, du sous T2 et du sous Armageddon en attendant les scènes d'action. J'ai passé à Bad Boys 2 parfois tellement le scénario donne cette impression d'être fait par dessus la jambe et de ne servir à rien. En gros, tous les défauts de scénario des films précédents de Bay sont là.

Le début met en place trois histoires parallèles avec pas mal de personnages facon film catastrophe, mais sur les trois, une est totalement inutile (d'ailleurs on voit peu d'image dans le trailer même si le personnage principal est toujours au casting, on peut espérer qu'ils l'ont réduite) et une autre n'est qu'un prétexte à des scènes d'action. Une seule sert, c'est l'intrigue sous-T2. Une fois que les autobots ont débarqué, la mise en place du début ne sert plus à rien vu qu'Optimus explique tout en une scène. Le scénariste tombe dans le travers hollywoodien qui consiste à vouloir faire une histoire et des personnages à partir d'un principe de base débile, mais sans jamais chercher à transcender son sujet et en oubliant que les gens sont là pour voir des robots se fritter et pas l'histoire d'un adolescent.
Et là est le gros problème du film qui va faire grincer des dents les fans : les humains sont partout. Les autobots n'arrivent qu'au milieu du scénario, et les autobots sont inexistants en tant que personnages. Ils sont du niveau du T-800 au début de T2, sans l'évolution et avec un temps de présence beaucoup plus réduit (aux scènes d'actions en fait). Ils ne sont pas en tant que personnage attachants/impressionniants/nobles. Ils passent même pour des cons (encore une fois, humour T2, mais sans l'évolution). Tout repose sur les humains - qui sont des stéréotypes et ne sont pas non plus intéressants. Ceux qui espéraient voir de gros robots se tapper sur la tronche pendant deux heures... la plupart des scènes d'actions consistent en humains vs transformers.
Il y a un gros souci au niveau des dialogues mais je veux croire qu'ils ont été réécris. En l'état, il n'y a quasiment pas une punchline cool et pas un dialogue qui ne soit pas un cliché. En fait, il n'y a même pas de punchline cool.

Bref, c'est objectivement pas bon du tout et c'est tout ce qu'on pouvait craindre.

MAIS

Le potentiel des scènes d'action est énorme. Si Bay transcende les scènes d'action telles qu'elles sont dans le script, ca sera la folie furieuse. Le final, en l'état, devrait bien faire 20-30 minutes et c'est du charal, c'est ce qu'attendent les fans. Le seul problème est que dans ce script il n'y aucun moment où je me suis dis "ouah", en grande partie à cause des dialogues pourris et du manque d'enjeux de l'histoire, mais aussi parce que ce qui est écrit est assez attendu (destruction d'immeubles, un robot qui prend un lampadaire pour taper sur un autre...) - à part le final donc. Mais les scènes d'actions sont probablement ce qui va le plus évoluer et je pense que ca va tuer.
Bref, le défaut du film sera j'en suis presque sur ce scénario qui est un scénario prétexte qui ne s'assume pas. Ca et le ton très banal ainsi que le traitement par-dessus la jambe des autobots en dehors des scènes d'action, qui risquent de décevoir. Ca sent le film DVD où on se repassera les scènes d'action en zappant le reste (facon Pearl Harbor).

Donc les fans de Bay vont adorer mais vont grincer des dents à pas mal de moments (ceux qui suportent les défauts d'Armageddon et Pearl Harbor vont adorer, pas de soucis), les anti-Bay vont retrouver absolument tout ce qu'ils détestent. J'étais sincèrement intrigué par le projet mais là je n'espère plus de surprise, ca sera du pur Bay dans ce que a a de bien et de naze.

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The Scythe-Meister a écrit:
les anti-Bay vont retrouver absolument tout ce qu'ils détestent. J'étais sincèrement intrigué par le projet mais là je n'espère plus de surprise, ca sera du pur Bay dans ce que a a de bien et de naze.

Oh nooooooooooooon....

J'espère que t'as tort. Pour une fois que j'attends un Bay!!!

Question de nabot: mais comment as-tu lu le scénario?

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Question de nabot: mais comment as-tu lu le scénario?


C'est Steven qui me l'a donné quand j'ai déjeuné avec lui jeudi dernier.

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Question de nabot: mais comment as-tu lu le scénario?


C'est Steven qui me l'a donné quand j'ai déjeuné avec lui jeudi dernier.

LOL..

Bon, ok, je sors.
Je trouve juste incroyable qu'on puisse avoir à disposition les scripts de tels films.

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Arnotte a écrit:
Question de nabot: mais comment as-tu lu le scénario?


C'est Steven qui me l'a donné quand j'ai déjeuné avec lui jeudi dernier.

LOL..

Bon, ok, je sors.
Je trouve juste incroyable qu'on puisse avoir à disposition les scripts de tels films.


C'est peut être des scripts de travail qui ne sont pas des scripts définitif.

Sinon au boulot j'avais le script de Sin City plusieurs mois avant la sortie du film, tous les partenaires potentiels peuvent avoir accès au script des films avant de signer un deal, il n'est pas étonnant alors de voir des fuites même si les studios vérouillent tout au maximum (je connais un mec qui bosse chez ubi soft et il a lu le script de Die Hard 4 seul dans une pièce en présence d'un gros gorille).


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Michael Bay parle à MTV:

MTV: So you have Steven Spielberg producing a Michael Bay film, a July 4 release — it seems like all the planets are aligned for "Transformers" to be huge. What can we expect from this film?

Michael Bay: It's a magical movie in a lot of ways. There's some awesome action in it. I've done action my whole life. I don't get excited about action anymore, but I'm excited about this. When robots transform at 85 miles an hour, you can do a lot with that. There are some mind-blowing visual effects and we're not even going to show them in the commercials. Normally when they advertise movies they show everything. Steven and I are just going to show a few pieces.

MTV: It's that old Spielberg axiom of never revealing too much.

Bay: Yeah. You've got to leave a lot hidden. We'll never show transformations. You'll never really get a good look at the robots until the release.

MTV: You've directed action of a pretty high caliber before. Can you compare the kind of action we'll see in "Transformers" to what you've done before?

Bay: You can do a lot with 30-foot and 40-foot robots. It's just very unique action. It's just mind-blowing. [Effects studio Industrial Light & Magic] does so many movies and I've never seen a crew so excited. A lot of them were "Tranformers" geeks and were totally in love with these effects. Ironhide's gun has 10,000 parts. It's because of the über-geeks at ILM who put so much craft into everything.

MTV: Is there one set piece you're itching for an audience to see?

Bay: There are 14 set pieces, actually. I counted. We got a lot of bang for our buck on this. It cost $150 million whereas the "Pirates" movies cost over $200 million.

MTV: What can we expect in the last reel of the film? You've hinted that it's pretty big stuff.

Bay: It happens in a city and it happens with a lot of robots fighting. The kids are at the center of it. You're going to have to go see it.

MTV: Cars turning into alien robots is about as far-fetched a concept as it gets. So how do you make it feel real to an audience?

Bay: It starts with the digital models and how you make these things emote. It's all about how they're made so they fit in the real world. I'm very adamant when we do computer graphics that it looks dead real. It seems like a dying art, but I'm one of the few directors that actually shoots a lot in camera. A lot will do these stunts in CG world whereas I will do it mostly real and add elements. There was one extremely dangerous stunt where we had to take a bus, jackknife it and split it with a guy driving and then we add the robot coming through. A lot of people would just make a CG bus and crash it [but] the audience can tell what's fake.

MTV: There was that famous tagline for "Superman": "You'll believe a man can fly." Do you think this summer we will believe that cars can turn into robots?

Bay: I've shown kids some of the movie and they've said to their dads, "Where did Michael Bay get those robots, dad?! Where'd he get them?!"

MTV: "Transformers" fans can be pretty fervent, and they were picking you apart from the get-go. Did you pay attention to what they were saying?

Bay: Absolutely. They all think I wasn't listening, but I was.

MTV: So what can the über-fan ...

Bay: Are you an über-fan?

MTV: I am.

Bay: I could see it. I could see it in your eyes!

MTV: So why should the über-fans be confident that Michael Bay has led us down the right path here?

Bay: Listen, I just didn't want to make the boxy characters. It's boring and it would look fake. By adding more doo-dads and stuff on the robots, more car parts, you can just make it more real. I was listening to the fans and I know they hated the Optimus paint job with the stripes. Why did I do it? Because I liked the ribs. That caused a lot of grief. [He laughs.]

MTV: Tell me about the voices we'll hear in the film.

Bay: The only one we have done is Peter Cullen for Optimus.

MTV: Are you casting name actors?

Bay: No, not name actors.

MTV: Will any other voices come from the old cartoon?

Bay: I can't really say yet. It's still an ongoing process. The voices are the next thing we're going to be doing.

MTV: Do you view this as an ongoing franchise? Is there an arc for future "Transformers" movies?

Bay: [He takes a long pause.]

MTV: I see a smile.

Bay: Yeah, of course you want to create a franchise. If you do "Transformers 2," we definitely have to go bigger.

MTV: Are there certain Transformers you'd like to get into a sequel?

Bay: Absolutely. Yeah. I can't tell you yet because the script's not written, but the writers, after they saw the movie were like, 'I don't know what we're going to write now.' It's like, what else do we do? We'll figure it out.

MTV: Do you feel like you made this giant film your own? Does it still feel personal to you?

Bay: Oh, come on. It's not personal. This is popcorn.

MTV: But there's that Michael Bay stamp ...

Bay: There's totally my stamp all over the place because I basically write all my own action. I do that to keep myself from getting bored from the stuff I've already done.

MTV: I can watch a couple of frames from your films and know it's a Michael Bay film. Is that something you take pride in? You obviously have detractors.

Bay: Oh yeah, there are tons of people that hate me and hate my movies. But hey, my movies have made a lot of money, two-something billion dollars. That's a lot of tickets. They said that I wrecked cinema. They said that I cut too fast and now you see it in movies everywhere. It's easy to bash a movie but until they know hard it is to actually make one ... Do I take pride in people knowing my style? I think it's nice people know a director has a style. And you can reinvent yourself too.

MTV: Will we see that with you?

Bay: Absolutely. I've got some smaller little movies, quirky movies, I want to do.

MTV: How about another "Bad Boys" installment?

Bay: I don't know. Will Smith's people called. They're fun to work with, those guys.

MTV: Was that a recent call?

Bay: I actually heard it through [Jerry] Bruckheimer.

MTV: And you'd be open to it?

Bay: Yeah, they're great fun.

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Un aperçu du visage de Jazz:

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MTV: Do you feel like you made this giant film your own? Does it still feel personal to you?

Bay: Oh, come on. It's not personal. This is popcorn.


:? :( :cry:

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:? :( :cry:


J'adore cette honnêteté, au contraire.

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:? :( :cry:


J'adore cette honnêteté, au contraire.


C'est clair...surtout que la suite précise bien sa pensée..."There's my stamp all over it"...ce sera du Bay reconnaissable comme d'hab..."personnal", ça implique des thèmes plus "perso", justement or Transformers, bah non, c'est pas "perso".

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Aucun nouveau message non-lu dans ce sujet. El Espinazo del Diablo meets Sister Act

F-des-Bois

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03 Aoû 2005, 00:21

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